The Red Review - Frameworks are all that, with Scott Clark

In this episode, Jeremy is joined by Framework Director and Account Management leader Scott Clark to talk all things framework management. They cover approaches to landing, mobilising, and managing frameworks effectively, how to grow frameworks and drive business growth through them, and the role of bids and proposals people in leveraging frameworks and getting up the funnel.

Transcript

welcome to the Red Review with me Jeremy brim the Red Review is brought to you by growth ignition the transformation and

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capability development business all in the work winning space and the bid toolkit its product set in bid process

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and training videos so welcome to the Red Review with me Jeremy brim uh sorry there's been a

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bit of a break we we had some uh episodes arranged and uh people fell by

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the wayside couldn't make it so they've been delayed all those sorts of things but speaking of which this is an episode

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I've been trying to do for two or three years I should think um so in particular

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we're going to talk today about framework management its kind of intersection with business growth

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strategy and key account management so sort of further up the funnel but particularly I think later how proposals

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people might play a role in that but I'm I'm joined by my friend uh Scott Clark hi Scott yeah hi Jeremy yeah we finally

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got there fantastic thank you for making the time mate so

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yeah this one's a really interesting one for the audience that we have of largely bids proposals people but some BD people

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too um or up the funnel people so um Scott let's do the introductions first

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of all so uh let us know who you are what you get up to where you've come from that kind of stuff before we to

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give us some context before we get into the detail yeah thank you for the warm welcome today Jeremy so I am somebody

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that that works in the construction sector uh working in the I've worked in tier one and tier 2 space um and I've

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developed from being a business development manager right the way up the funnel into framework to be a framework

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director um account director um and um business development director and what's

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been fantastic about my journey today is that I'm able to Pivot between each of

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those three um so yeah really interesting Journey I'm I'm I'm absolutely delighted to be here today

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well thank you no thank you for making the time mate as we said we we've been trying to get this conversation for

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years actually and one reason or another it's not quite come together so it's good to get the chat because that

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framework management is a funny game isn't it um there's not masses of people

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uh in the framework management space but they're quite key roles but if you ask somebody what a

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framework manager does people come back with very different answers and as we were just talking off

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camera the the quality capability um of framework managers can

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be quite variable um and their backgrounds and what they think framework management means can be quite

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variable but it is quite a key engine room to the growth of particularly b2g

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businesses um where they've got big government Frameworks so um so tell us

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so we met at isg um so I I did I guess a year all in with

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isg I I I got uh bought in as a consultant I ended up being the director of winning work for six months um and

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then hand it over to a guy who who they were recruiting into that role um and we cross paths uh where you were looking

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after some of the ma the major Frameworks and we had some interesting conversations about uh how you worked

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because I I really appreciated it and um and saw the value so um so we won't go

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into what's happened to isg one of one of their problems was not winning work um so you know that we we'll move on

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from that bit but you it was a good experience uh in how you grow things so

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um tell me about what you think framework management is and uh perhaps

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tell us that sort of Journey where you were where you picked that up at isg transition from a business development role into that framework management

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framework director piece yeah thanks for that um so for me I'm I've always been the

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individual that's not just been about responding to pipeline if if you are

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just responding to pipeline coming for a framework you're going to end up spending a lot of money and it's not an efficient use of any business's time so

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number one rule is don't respond to everything and don't ask the the question um at the F at the framework

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launch of what's the pipeline absolutely not so for me frame framework management

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is a much broader um skill set so if you are looking at bringing salese into that

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into that environment you need to be thinking about business Improvement framework rebid proposals management how

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are you going to support your people internally how can you support externally so for me I organize things

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into buckets as I say I'm the man with a workable plan so for me the bit the

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number one thing that I needed to understand when I picked up one particular framework at isg was how the

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interface of that framework was going to work within the business so for that for

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me it was understanding the framework how the bids work supporting bid teams

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because you'd be surprised Jeremy how many people just don't understand the

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key nuances of framework management kpi reporting um all and the mini bidding

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isn't it it's it's the mini bidding of these schemes because they're quite particular well depends on the frame

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work but some are more prescribed because obviously you you on CCS where well let's face it they're lazy um and

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so the the client's tender documents can be pretty variable but more of the prescribed stuff like department for

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Education where it's you're basically filling in the same form for every every type of tender or even Southern

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construction framework where it's pretty similar there's a lot to get out of becoming better and better at those bids

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and it's the framework manager's job to keep going and getting the feedback in the detail helping us improve and improve makes a big difference to

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business outcomes than just sitting there like many do what and bidding everything that comes through the client

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pipeline um it's it's not about that is it because there's there's the intersection so it's I'm having an

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interesting time at the moment largely working with building contractors working lots of other markets defense

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stuff and all sorts of spent lots of time talking about Ukraine and things quite sadly in the six months before but

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in the last three months uh I'm backing with the builders quite a lot all the big tier ones who are all

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into business planning at the moment and it's fascinating how variable their level of quality of what they do with

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that is um and and then the intersection with how they treat Frameworks and so

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one of the things that isg were really good at with you in the heart of it but also Morgan Syle maybe with old uh Rob

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Hall who was X isg as well wasn't he on Pabo for instance you realize that it's not about going to

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a framework meeting and feverishly writing down the pipeline that the framework thinks it has um it's about

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taking opportunities to the pipe to the framework and being direct awarded them back isn't

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it um and so there's a whole game to be played in that isn't there that you need

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to really enable yeah and I've I mean I'm not going to talk about specific opportunities but I was a key architect

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I was a key architect in in securing some of that major major work with government clients so yeah absolutely

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the bit that you have to do is really understand your framework um so you know

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support support those strategic um objectives that the framework has so if we think back to

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2019 I think when the construction Playbook started to sort of develop traction you know we were we were

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looking at you know Carbon reduction we were looking at putting social value at

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the at the heart of of Government Contracting so you know what part does your organization have to play in

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developing its capabilities now and in the future so you need to be investing in in in why your clients are using that

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framework as a supplier are you the supplier of choice because you've just got that solution nailed that's where

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framework management is much bigger than just a a sales role um you know I I sat

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on various working groups but not just in the working groups going back into

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the organization and building capability so if I think back to some of the stuff

8:37

that I did with crown commercial it was around developing alliancing models lean

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construction Improvement and bringing that back into the business but also promoting that to clients that would

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potentially use Crown commercial so thej utilized that as a as a delivery model

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we talked to Dio and others about the benefits of util izing you know those

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key facets in their future procurements you know it's about left shift isn't it Jeremy we've spoken about this so many

9:07

times getting up the funnel being that that in that advisory role where you're

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really adding value at the at the earliest possible opportunity yeah um absolutely it's a

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real engine room for growth because as as we were saying well the thing I've always appreciate with you Scott is you're same as me you're a data first

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kind guy right It's let's go and do some market research let's go and verify that

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that Pipeline and make informed decisions top down because as as we talk about as mates quite often when we catch

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up I'm on my 13th client in a row now where 80% of their margin comes from 20%

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of their clients um when you think about that that's mad so they're they're making the

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Lion Share of their money on a fairly small proportion of their clients they're making a bit more money on a a

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medium sort of tail and then there's this long tail of clients that they're doing individual bits of work or small

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pieces of work for where they're losing money um and perhaps they're not tracking it

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effectively but the amount of very large well-known multi-billion turnover

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businesses that have no idea where their profit really comes from is quite shocking considering how many people in

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their business and in contractors that are basically a thin Prime how many people in their supply chain that's

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mortgages and rent you know rely on these businesses being successful it's quite easy to run a mediocre business

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and make a reasonable and okay profit um but the performers you know really focus

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in the through business planning they really focus on who their key accounts are landing and expanding with those

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adding a client or two to that list each year and then they'll smash their numbers to bits I mean I think I was I

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was telling you wasn't I I had a bit of a LinkedIn clash with the leader of one of my competitors the other day cuz I'd

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said that proposals was just the end game um and I didn't I wasn't being

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derogatory to proposals people what I actually meant was that proposals people

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are the best equipped to run campaigns in winning work um you I think I I think

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you're an unusual BD person Scott I think you grew up in the wrong life you should you should have been of us you

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should have been a proposals person because you're too good at writing and propositions and all that stuff to have

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to have just wandered around being a BD good dude it just happens you have a personality too um but um yeah what do

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you think in terms of the the opportunity and how who should be doing

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this stuff who should be the engine room do you think when it when it comes to getting up the

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funnel so the F first and foremost it has to be bought in at the at the top of the organization with the leadership um

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that's where you know we've had discussions about key account management um and for me the if if we apply that

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back to a framework setting um and if if I think back to my

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time when I picked up Crown commercial and and other Frameworks and that workable plan

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is think about your activity short medium and long term what does five

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years look like in terms of that growth with a into a new sector for example um and we

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can talk about that shortly but the the real thing is what can you focus on as that real shortterm term win um and the

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easiest way to do that and grow your business is through your existing customer base and you'll be surprised

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how many times I ask individuals within businesses that I've worked in how well

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do we really understand our customer where is the data where is the feedback where's the the customer Insight piece

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and it's never it's never really there um so the bit the bit for me that I

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found quite interesting in terms of developing that account management plan for for a framework was sitting down and deciding

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where we were going to play in the short term so that was a market penetration strategy all day long um we were looking

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at where we were already working and how could we how could we improve that how could we build capture plans around key

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Pursuits um that that was a fantastic journey and I went and played in capture as well for a little bit which um was

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was fantastic around some really key opportunities so yeah that's that's

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really what businesses should be doing number one rule is focus on your existing customers because if you do

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that right you don't really need to do an awful lot more in the external Market

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you know Chasing Rainbows yeah so the bit I guess the bit we haven't covered that I trip across often that's a miss

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understandings we haven't really talked about what a framework is have we perhaps we should have defined that um

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and so just just for those that aren't aware um you do get you know uh panels

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and things like that in the private sector where an organization puts in place they they will run a procurement

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exercise to put in place a panel of Consultants or suppliers that they then

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pull service from and maybe they just give work to those suppliers maybe on a taxi rank basis

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you know supplier a gets a job and then supplier b gets the next job etc etc

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sometimes they mini bid uh so they've done their sort of free qualification as it were sometimes they mini beid

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opportunities to them but it's more I would say it's more prevalent or the the bigger procurements of these things tend

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to be in the public sector or the ones we're more aware of in the Press so Crown Commercial Services are a subset

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of the cabinet office their central government big procurement hub ironically they're not very good at it

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but that's a story for another time um but they're they're the big engine room of procurement for government of all

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types of services so Scott and I are both from construction world but they run Frameworks in it and insurance and

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management consulting and all sorts of things and they are Mega Frameworks to be in there's huge billions and billions

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of pounds worth of work goes through these things but so they're the top tier I guess but then there are lots of other

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public sector Frameworks whether they are owned by public bodies so Southern construction framework was always a good

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Heritage running Construction in the south of the country where Hampshire Council worked with some other councils

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to come together to create their own framework panel of contractors and then with mini bid jobs through them um

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there's now in the modern day those Heritage fully P privately

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sorry publicly owned ones like Southern construction framework scape Etc are coming under quite heavy pressure market

15:59

share pressure from the likes of Pabo and procure Partnerships um who are really quite

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polished very professional great BD teams which we should come back to Scott

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how how you work with the BD teams of the the framework providers in a

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sec one key thing I point out to people is so all of the Frameworks we've just

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talked about are actually zero value um so they have or purport to have a

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pipeline of work but those pipelines also massively overlap with each other

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um so they're not it they're not the end client it's not a program of work or a

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program of money uh it's just a lens or a window to access work we just need to

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be clear that the DFE construction framework and their technical advisor framework is a program of work it's

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their own money so you're mini bidding for real jobs with them and they make the decisions on it whereas the other

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Frameworks where it's just a lens to Market they have an end client a local Authority a health authority a bit of

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central government that are the end client who will actually pay you so there's a distinction between what I would say is a program of work and then

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an actual framework and and the sort of added complexity Scott as we were talking

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about the other day there's 10,000 Lots across all of the Frameworks that touch

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construction either consultancy you know FM main construction fit out all of that

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kind of stuff so there's probably too many but we just need to make the distinction between the fact that these

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are just a lens to procure um in in what we were talking about there I guess um

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and so the the bit so that's an interesting bit isn't it that um if you

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take Pabo for instance they've got some great BD people of their own um all

17:51

across the country and it's some of this if you're a contractor or a consultant on one of their Frameworks it's about

17:58

how you work tandem with their people isn't it taking them with you as well

18:03

yeah absolutely because um what what they require is those projects to come

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through the pipeline they depend upon the the Contracting Market to bring those opportunities to the table so that

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that is about working together in terms of understanding what again understanding what the client's key

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drivers are what their issues in terms of getting through that that governance piece or whether it's to support a

18:27

business plan so it's very much the the two have to come together to make these

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things work um and yeah some Frameworks are better at it um than

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others um but ultimately that's the end goal isn't it we're all working towards that end goal um and and working

18:46

together to get there so yeah absolutely you've got to be integrated into that framework team as well um you are part

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of that Journey um and again it's not just about responding to Tender

18:59

opportunities you have to work it hard you got to take opportunities to it

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haven't you um because they're they're all in a street fight so the the the interesting thing I guess so if you've

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got at the top of a pyramid business plan where the business is going its objectives key measures um you know

19:18

you've got a marketing plan that P you know helps the brand pull through oppos

19:23

opportunities or position you things hopefully more account-based marketing that's a bit more Precision stuff but

19:29

we've done podcast episodes on that like the one with Darren Carter um but Frameworks are in that next level along

19:35

with key account management but as a business you know if you take isg we're on a number of Frameworks you know

19:41

Morgan sindler are on loads others are on quite a few as a business you've got

19:46

to figure out how many do you want to be on of what flavors tactically who do you

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back and what the balance is um because the Frameworks themselves are now into a

19:58

heavy sort of Battle of market share they are having to pitch to clients for work for projects or programs of

20:04

projects that that they help them procure uh they're under price pressure Etc so it's how we work with them and

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support them so pick which ones you want to support or what of the balance of it across the business so it's a bit of an

20:17

awkward game isn't it to play I guess yeah AB absolutely and the advice that I

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would give to to any organization that is considering Frameworks is don't try

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and get onto every single one the com the competition in Frameworks is is pretty high I've I've seen it where that

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that competition play out in terms of projects will come through and you'll see the same same project from three

20:44

framework providers so you really have to understand the the competition at the

20:50

Frameworks and the value that they're delivering for their clients social value seemed to be a really big big

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topic a couple of years ago um and that that space will ultimately change and

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adapt and evolve um so the the best advice is try not to get on too many

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Frameworks where they're competing with each other really again try and focus on that that market piece of where does

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your business want to play um and then why do they utilize the Frameworks that

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they use is there a a route that that framework offers in terms of flexibility

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a type of contract a particular value that that framework brings you obviously

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then and that aligns to your business yeah support that framework support that client but don't get on too many

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Frameworks I mean I was part of a review a couple of years ago um uh with with

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Frameworks and it was a it was a key recommendation um at the time that there were there were too many Frameworks out

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there in the market um so we need we needed to consolidate that

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sector yeah because there is a cost an overhead attached if you're going to do it properly um and as I say you'll be

22:02

much more successful or certainly much more profitable if you take the view of taking clients and projects that you've

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done the business development on to a framework to then be direct awarded ideally or worst case you've shaped the

22:15

opportunity with the client um in tandem with that you know who are your key

22:21

accounts where's the profit going to be coming from in three years time so there's a whole how how you map that

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together in your business strategy is really really super important and and some of that might be how you might have

22:33

a flavor as you mentioned sectors Scott you know when we were at isg you know we

22:39

got them big into MOJ and people like Kate ryby have gone and absolutely run with that done a great job of course we

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were part of that first big prison as part of that First Alliance the capture of that which went reasonably well um

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but of course we were looking at Dio and Defense work and what was the right framework to be on and

22:59

all of that stuff in that game so that you can select Frameworks that have

23:04

better exposure to certain sectors you want to enter as part of a goto Market entry strategy um there's there's quite

23:12

a lot of D Dynamics at play isn't there strategically yeah absolutely and and

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the real and again understanding your framework and the clients that are utilizing that framework important so we

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we at the time um at at isg identifi that the biggest spender of the lifetime

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of the pr Commercial Services Framework was going to be the mod or Dio so we

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developed a market entry strategy into defense it made sense the there was a

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lot of alignment with thej um and that for me was probably one

23:47

of the most exciting points in my career um we brought in strategic strategic

23:53

advisors we built a governance structure we built Market intelligence

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um and we decided you know which you know what did that look like that Journey with with that client in that

24:05

area over a 5year period we knew exactly which which work types we wanted to go

24:11

for um and we we just developed that that market entry strategy and it was

24:17

really successful um we were you know we secured some key bids and some key

24:22

opportunities and you know that that that sector unfortunately is not going to is not going to role on at isg but

24:29

you know some great people came in to support that sector um and and and that

24:34

strategy moving forward I really enjoyed that it was yeah it was fantastic fun

24:40

good fun wasn't it um so where's this all going in the future so we've got you

24:46

know new procurement act uh should give us more opportunity

24:52

to engage Frameworks before rebids or bids for them help shape them that sort

24:58

of stuff um so we should look at what was in their tender documents last time when we bid it or others bid it help try

25:06

and shape their thinking they should do more and more engagement pre-bid to shape lotting structures and things like

25:12

that as the DFE are at the moment for their school stuff um teaming is an

25:18

interesting one isn't it so we're seeing more and more particularly for Crown

25:23

Commercial Services Frameworks companies coming together to bid these things so I

25:29

either one acting as a prime and having a supply chain or even you saw last time

25:35

around I think uh for the more Health focused CCS one Wilmont Dixon came

25:41

together with mace to did that um together which you'd normally never think of two large building contractors

25:48

sort of being grown up enough to play nicely but it's actually gone really well from what I understand because

25:54

there are only so many places on these Frameworks so do you drisk the chance of not getting on with by partnering with

26:00

someone that perhaps fits nicely in terms of geography or strengths or

26:05

whatever it might be it's an interesting space isn't it it's changing world yeah and it creates it creates new

26:11

opportunities and new offers to the markets and and and the clients utilizing those Frameworks as well um I

26:17

I'm all for it what's really important is that if that is something that you're you would look to do in terms of a JV

26:24

you have to start that Journey with Partners really early days um we all have different cultures and

26:31

ways that our business operates we you know commercially we need to understand where we sit you know the almost a way

26:40

of working document or you have to go through that Journey really early days

26:45

because you don't want to jump into a framework get on it and then all of a sudden you're fighting over a particular

26:51

territory or um a par particular project type you have to really make sure you

26:58

understand what what your organization is is going to do in that framework and and not um and and unfortunately

27:05

sometimes you do you do you do miss out but yeah really good opportunity um and

27:12

it's a different way of thinking um but if you're doing your research you your research should tell

27:18

you that you're not the strongest person to bid that lot or that framework on your own so yeah align as early as

27:26

possible yeah I would I would abolutely agree with that particularly if you're looking for a big 50/50 sort of JV or

27:32

partnership um getting aligned and really getting in I've seen some absolutely massive howlers in the last

27:39

couple of years of where parties have tried to come together you know bid a pilot scheme before a big framework

27:46

comes out and it's it's just not gone well so yeah they you realize that actually one of the parties is far more

27:52

expensive at one bit or carries much bigger overhead or something that's going to affect your ability to win so

27:59

um you know that's that's quite a big deal but the the other thing is if you're a smaller business I've got

28:04

friends who are in sort of tier two consultancies that just find a a prime

28:10

and partner with them um you know there is just think about it I I I do have a

28:15

school of thought because I've got 100% win rate for CCS bids um I've one management consulting three and

28:22

construction services and construction ones and MMC ones um and so so do I go

28:29

and bid them on my own as a thin Prime and take a supply chain with me create

28:34

an umbrella organization um and create a business out of that I don't know it's an it's an

28:41

interesting idea I think I won't pass the financial uh restrictions um I need to

28:47

someone keeps one of my mates keeps telling me I need to fill out the spreadsheet of uh the sort of financial calculator on what what you need to have

28:54

in terms of balance sheet and things I don't I don't think my business is at the races but I sometimes wind up some

29:00

of my mates by saying well I'll just been against you on my own um we'll see but there is a place for smmes in fact

29:07

it's very important that smmes are in the supply chain for these things if if Government are going to go down these

29:13

fewer places on longer Frameworks like CCS seem to be getting into teams and

29:19

doing that really early is super important I've had to do some workshops with people recently where they just had

29:24

even thought about it and um it's not clever and and and another bit to add to that

29:30

Jeremy is do organizations really understand what their value proposition is um do they understand which parts of

29:38

their business are really good so if you're going to bid a bid a framework in with with a JV partner what does that

29:45

Auer look like who brings I'm just thinking back to a an alliance of day at

29:50

the M the at the MJ we we clearly saw the the the strengths that the others

29:57

that the others brought brought Way Beyond what isg brought to the table and you know it's about delivering Client

30:03

Solutions and it's who who should be the lead of that particular facet let them

30:10

run with it you know but really understand what your value is back to your

30:16

customers yeah no we have quite big problems with clients in that space with sort of politics with a small P of um

30:24

they don't want to admit that one part of their business is weaker than another they want to put forward oh we can do

30:30

everything but actually the competitors are stronger at one part you're better so for instance Mason Turner and towns

30:37

end in the defense World years ago realized they were taking work off each other and getting the wrong bit one's

30:44

better at Cost one's better at project management so why not joint venture it make sure we both get on or win this

30:50

work so they won the big cost partner role delivery partner role with Dio didn't they as a as a JV and it was a

30:56

really smart move so being grown up about this stuff most organizations don't do that they don't want to partner

31:03

don't want to admit one bit's weaker than another and they end up with nothing of nothing rather than something

31:08

of something um so it's not it's not good strategy you're right the value

31:14

proposition things interesting um again I've got another client at the moment who think they've

31:20

got 110 key accounts um we can't have no can you uh

31:27

well for starters you need a board member to review every one of those plans for at least 30 minutes every

31:32

month so how many board members have you got um how many hours in the day have they got are they going to do this

31:39

fulltime um so no you've probably got five to start with maybe 20 tops and

31:45

those 20 are probably doing 80% of your margin anyway um we tend to find so focus is

31:52

absolutely everything isn't it and then off the back of that what is your proposition to those Focus markets and

31:58

clients that you can take through that framework through that lens um and what's the proposition to

32:05

the framework providers because they the the framework providers at the end of the day are taking a percentage they

32:11

want contractors or suppliers or partners that can bring work to the framework make them look good deliver

32:17

well for clients and so you need to have a proposition to them that shows what you're going to bring to the

32:23

party part absolutely and one of the once you get past you've got on a

32:29

framework and you're in that sort of Celebration mode the the first thing

32:35

that I always think about is that rebid um from from from day one and then

32:41

that starts to then relook at the the account management process that you're going to put around that framework how

32:48

you're going to manage the framework what's new what's what's that Lessons Learned piece

32:55

that you can bring in from the old framework and other framework works as well so yeah it's really important yeah

33:02

that's really prudent um almost Nobody Does that did with any form of uh

33:07

contract that has a a rebid date in the future they just wait until the last six

33:13

months and panic um when actually from day one you can build an execute a plan

33:18

to keep seeding ideas to keep so you don't because you don't want your rebid document to be a surprise to them do you

33:25

um you want to be seeding what what you would help them improve yeah absolutely um I mean I I

33:34

just think back to some of the teams that I've worked with over the years I I sort of hold back on the W particularly

33:40

within the first three months of a of a framework going live talking about rebid um we've all been there we've all

33:47

been been through the battles and you lay in a dark room after you've submitted what you think is a fantastic

33:52

framework bid um but yeah you need to have that in your sights um

33:58

you need that you need that built into your plan of your framework fundamentally um to move to move forward

34:04

and rescure your position everybody wants to be number one um you know

34:09

you've got you got to work really hard to maintain that position as number one or to beat the competition to get up to

34:15

number one yeah because there's that whole kpi game isn't there in delivery

34:20

the business needs to be delivering through the lifetime uh for you to be able to hit those kpis and things so they they help the F the business focus

34:27

on on performance they're really Frameworks are a really good thing for the business all of that kpi game feels

34:33

like a real ballach at the time but actually as long as you've helped them shape the kpis so they genuinely add

34:39

value they're useful they're not just silly they drive the business to do the right things don't they um so so yeah

34:46

just just to reiterate the point for my proposals friends as much as all of the AI

34:53

businesses are you know giving it the oh you know AI is just a sidearm and you you all get to keep your jobs as bid

34:59

writers and all that sort of stuff that's clearly not true um you know CCS have already procured an AI platform to

35:05

read their bids first that they receive um so it's not rocket science that we will create I AI platforms that go and

35:13

find the bits they're looking for and tell them the things they're looking for in an automated fashion Can't Be A

35:18

Million Miles Away five or 10 years away so you know there is a place for becoming an expert in using those tools

35:25

as a bid writer or bidding professional proposals person um but in

35:31

reality I think proposals people bidding people are really well suited to running

35:38

campaigns so capture I talk about capture a lot and how they're the best suited people to be the project managers

35:44

of capture be capture managers um but also I think Frameworks is an

35:50

interesting space and there are I'm working with a client at the moment actually who has a framework manager for one of their major Frameworks who was a

35:56

proposals person cuz they get how to win work don't they I'm not saying BD people like your

36:01

heritage Scott aren't the right people for either I just think they should be a contest or I think I think proposals

36:08

people should think about it as a potential route for their career that they they want to gravitate through um

36:16

because they they you know obviously they understand how to optimize the mini bids and all that sort of stuff but you

36:21

know we we understand how to run campaigns which is a big part of Frameworks

36:26

right yeah yeah absolutely and that's that's the that's a skill set that I bring to to framework management is that

36:33

workable that workable plan um the the bit around that is yeah

36:40

there's the there's the responding to um tenders and and being ready for those we

36:47

we we've talked about that at length but it's that un you you are the architect at the center of your organization I

36:53

think back to my time at isg I was working with multiple bid teams across the whole of the UK the maturity and

37:00

understanding around Frameworks um was mixed some parts of the business really hot others not so um

37:08

so you have to be that internal champion of how do you build a system that embeds

37:14

all that learning continuous Improvement but can support those individuals those

37:19

bid teams those delivery teams um at the certain life cycle point of a project

37:25

whether that be preconstruction uh post award um so I spent a lot of

37:31

time um developing uh documents

37:36

presentations web webinars um and and onetoone support with people taking them

37:42

on that Journey so you've you've got to be that you've got to be that internal Champion you've got to be that external

37:47

champion and you have to think about your framework your internal people and

37:52

your customers that are going to use that framework if you focus on those three key areas get them right you'll be

37:58

successful yeah I'd agree I think i' I'd add the other bit you were good at um

38:04

and I've seen a couple of others it's rare but a couple of others are good at is driving direct Awards through these

38:10

Frameworks negotiations um where you can get in earlier with the client you know in the

38:15

construction world it's about early contractor engagement and things but the same Works in any Market really you

38:21

should in your business plan have a kpi or a measure for proportion of work that's negotiated or direct awarded in

38:28

the public sector and drive that stat because you generally find you're you're engaged by the client earlier the work

38:35

is lower risk um you tend to do a better job you tend to make more money as a

38:42

result the clients get better value um you know it tends to all go a lot better if you're direct awarded on

38:49

average for everyone involved there's huge business benefit in that it's part of I've got a whole sort of campaign

38:55

Brewing about uh um you know do do I go and work with some businesses as a as a

39:02

fractional you know cro or business development director where we Implement

39:08

that kind of strategy in how you double the margin of the business because it's not rocket science put you know figure

39:14

out your business plan proper market research behind it get a Tailwind of account-based marketing pushing it

39:21

through but particularly this kind of strategy around Frameworks and key account management and then cap at the

39:27

next level if you get all of that singing I've got a number of clients now where we've doubled their margin in two

39:33

to three years just through that Focus cut the tail focus on where the money's going to be in three years time um and

39:40

Frameworks are a key conduit but that a key Enterprise in that is trying to get as many negotiations or direct Awards as

39:47

possible yeah and and for framework if you're in framework management or framework director role you you have to

39:54

you have to be able to Pivot the importance so that is is essential you have to then be able to put yourself in

40:01

an advisory role where you really get into the into the client's head space

40:06

really understanding their challenges and what you think is a major challenge um might not necessarily be a

40:13

challenge for that client or vice versa um and it is then down to you to say

40:18

right okay if if you consider this approach through this framework actually

40:25

we can we can knock 6 months off your your program um let's let's have a look at that pipeline of work actually these

40:33

people don't exist um in terms of the resources that you that you require to

40:38

deliver this program are work in that amount of time here's another solution to that to that challenge um and and

40:46

it's it's quite refreshing when you know and I get a real kick out of this is where somebody comes to one side and

40:53

said you know what we not even thought about that thank you so much for the for

40:59

for what you've provided today you know you you you're the person that I'm always going to call when we need to

41:05

talk about this that and the other and that for me is what gets me out of bed in the morning it's that that advisory

41:12

role that direct award sometimes it doesn't always result in a direct award you're just giving really good advice to

41:18

your customer um that that's what it's about surely yeah yeah no and it will it will

41:25

position you for that competitive tender so much better because you'll understand the scope better than everyone else

41:30

you'll understand the risk better than everyone else so you'll you'll be much more likely to win um yeah that's really

41:37

interesting so yeah you can use the old proactive proposals in there you know put a paper to the client with a

41:44

hypothesis using this framework engaging us early we can do these things faster

41:49

this will save you this much money it saves you this in inflation it'll be lower risk and whatever your hypothesis

41:54

is to get you in the door to get that Workshop there's a co-s solutioning we

42:00

call it get a co-s solutioning workshop with a client as you described there Scott get in the room with a client get

42:05

your key people with their key people and even if you don't get a direct award what happens is you'll understand the

42:12

scope better than everyone else and the risks Etc but also your humans are

42:17

spending time with their humans building trust so when they do come to read your bid or your proposal if it's a

42:24

negotiation they don't even read the CVS they see the pictures they move on job done uh because they trust the people

42:31

already top marks um so that's where we want to be so sorry I was going to say

42:36

and that's where we talk about proposals then is the end game it's not the start

42:42

um I talk I talk to everybody about left shift and that's the space where you can really add value that's

42:49

where you know Business Development professionals need to develop their

42:55

skill sets um yeah yeah it's it's a really interesting

43:02

space that's that's that's where we should be spending our time I agree well

43:08

good place to finish uh we got there that's the full journey of Frameworks that I've been meaning to have with you for probably three years Scott so thank

43:15

you very much for making the time mate uh we' covered some ground there hopefully Food For Thought for the audience in where they might be able to

43:23

gravitate to in their careers it's you know proposals is is absolutely vital in that end game we've got to put the ball

43:29

in the net but there's so many opportunities Upstream in capture cam but I I think Frameworks and how we

43:36

strategize around them manage them is really quite interesting uh at the heart of the growth of the business so thank

43:42

you mate great to hang out love to see you and uh we will have another episode for the audience soon thank

43:48

you thank you